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Elizabeth Sandifer

Elizabeth Sandifer created Eruditorum Press. She’s not really sure why she did that, and she apologizes for the inconvenience. She currently writes Last War in Albion, a history of the magical war between Alan Moore and Grant Morrison. She used to write TARDIS Eruditorum, a history of Britain told through the lens of a ropey sci-fi series. She also wrote Neoreaction a Basilisk, writes comics these days, and has ADHD so will probably just randomly write some other shit sooner or later. Support Elizabeth on Patreon.


  1. arcbeatle
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:38 am

    Adam already jumped on it, but if he falls through I can do it:

    arcbeatle at yahoo dot com if it comes to i!


  2. Lewis Christian
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:52 am

    It's a shame Steven Moffat has "co-written" this.


  3. Tymothi
    September 27, 2014 @ 7:04 am

    A school-based episode seems like a good place to ask this again: Phil, have you seen the 2011 Joseph Kahn movie Detention? It's a genre mashup that includes, amongst many other things, a time travel via pop music montage scene, a ursine TARDIS stand-in, and more meta than you can shake a stick at. I'm curious to know what you think of it.


  4. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 27, 2014 @ 7:14 am

    I fear that I have not.


  5. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 27, 2014 @ 7:15 am

    Thanks to both you and Adam. May e-mail you, but my copy-editor also e-mailed to volunteer, and for a variety of obvious reasons, that's somewhat easier and more straightforward.


  6. Matthew Blanchette
    September 27, 2014 @ 7:21 am

    No, but it's a shame a certain Mr. Chesterton probably won't appear in this.


  7. Tymothi
    September 27, 2014 @ 7:54 am

    I do highly recommend it, and it's on Netflix streaming now, if you have that. It's brash, loud, initially off-putting, funny, and thematically juicy. It takes the "everyone is the star of their own movie" idea and just runs with it.


  8. jonathan inge
    September 27, 2014 @ 8:01 am

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  9. Melissa Robertson
    September 27, 2014 @ 9:12 am

    Anyone know any good streaming links for BBC1? I don't have cable, and I need to see it live today because I have a busy evening and a busy Sunday. I know a couple, but they all lag a lot because so many people are on them.


  10. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 27, 2014 @ 9:13 am

    I wish you luck finding something, but I'm afraid I'm not comfortable with directions on how to effectively pirate taking place on my blog.


  11. Lewis Christian
    September 27, 2014 @ 10:05 am

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  12. Lewis Christian
    September 27, 2014 @ 10:08 am

    I'm glad, to be honest.

    If Ian were ever to reappear, I'd hope the episode would focus on him. (In a similar manner to how Sarah Jane took the focus of School Reunion.)

    Ian's rich with potential, and an exploration of him and the Doctor over 45mins would be great. He never heard of "Time Lords", of "Gallifrey", of Cybermen, of regeneration even. And our Doctor is now many incarnations away from the man Ian once knew. There's so much story potential there, in my view, and this episode seems set on Clara/Danny as its primary focus. I feel throwing Ian into this particular mix would result in a small cameo just for the 'squee factor', IMO.


  13. heroesandrivals
    September 27, 2014 @ 10:11 am

    Part of the problem with Chesterton appearing is that over in SJA Moffat canonized the idea that Steven and Barbra got de-aged. (And are working at Cambridge, not Coal Hill.)
    If they don't have at least a PICTURE of Mister Chesterton on the wall though I'm gonna be properly steamed.


  14. Melissa Robertson
    September 27, 2014 @ 10:18 am

    I get it. Thanks anyway.


  15. Pen Name Pending
    September 27, 2014 @ 10:20 am

    What necessitates co-authorship on this series? It's rarely happened before, and in the cases of "Into the Dalek" and now apparently this episode, it wasn't really announced beforehand that these episodes were a collaboration. I understand (and almost expect) that Moffat might do a rewrite, but RTD reportedly did that all the time and he wasn't credited nearly as often. Hmmm


  16. jonathan inge
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:26 am

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  17. Scurra
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:30 am

    I have to admit that I am liking the episode titles this season very much – only Time Heist has really let the side down. This one might be the best so far though, given the levels on which it works


  18. jonathan inge
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:34 am

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  19. ScarvesandCelery
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:41 am

    Excellent episode – very funny, full of some excellent character moments. I especially loved Danny Calling out the Doctor on his privileged background. There seems to be a thread running with this since Robin Hood linked his Background to the Doctor's in 'Robot of Sherwood', with Danny calling out the more negative aspect of the Doctor's roots here. More Gareth Roberts writing for Doctor Who, please. Actually, am I the only one who thinks he could be a good future showrunner?
    Oh, and I'm pulling at straws here, but is there anything to be made of the fact that the Skovotz Blitzer was the third robotic antagonist of the Season?


  20. Bennett
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:49 am

    If anything suggests to me that this is a case of a union or BBC policy decision necessitating a change in how things are done, it's that all of the post-production scripts credited single writers only (a fact we only know courtesy of the leak we are now thankfully in the clear from). Such a last minute change is surely more likely to come from external pressure than internal whim.

    Just my own dubious guesswork and fanciful speculation, of course. All those who are actually privy to this kind of behind-the-scenes information would also have the professional tact not to gossip about it.


  21. Nick Smale
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:49 am

    I'm guessing it reflects Moffat's personal oversight of the 'Danny arc'.


  22. ScarvesandCelery
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:50 am

    I did feel like Danny was being a little possessive when he said he'd to leave Clara if she wouldn't let him help her. It felt a little like he didn't like the idea that she can take care of herself. At least, that's how I guess it could be seen as misogynistic – it is also a sweet scene where he offers her support because he can empathize with the way she relates to the Doctor. It really depends where the writers take that plot thread.


  23. Daibhid C
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:50 am

    Immediate thoughts:

    1) The bit about the Doctor assuming Clara's ideal man was the professional Matt Smith lookalike was cute, but could have done with being pointed out in dialogue a bit less.

    2) Was the Doctor's inability to comprehend that a former soldier might become a maths teacher a dig at criticism of Mardwyn Undead, or is that me reading stuff into it? Because if it is, I'm not sure it works. The criticism of Mardwyn isn't "a soldier can't be a maths teacher", it's "this particular career soldier, who we know well, has no particular reason to suddenly become a maths teacher".

    3) Courtney is … well, she kind of feels like they had another story planned for Angie and didn't want to waste it, so they introduced Almost Angie. (To go with my sister's characterisation of Clara as Almost Amy.) And I found Angie pretty annoying in the first place.


  24. Lewis Christian
    September 27, 2014 @ 12:21 pm

    Moffat never did SJA. And the line can be interpretative in different ways anyway. I always took Sarah saying "rumour has it, they haven't aged" as kind of poetic, just in the same way people say "you don't look a day over X".


  25. Lewis Christian
    September 27, 2014 @ 12:24 pm

    "Was the Doctor's inability to comprehend that a former soldier might become a maths teacher a dig at criticism of Mardwyn Undead"

    Someone drew the parallel (used to be in the army, now a maths teacher) up on Twitter and Gareth Roberts replied saying he didn't even realise whilst writing.


  26. Lewis Christian
    September 27, 2014 @ 12:25 pm

    Okay, hands up, I really loved that. Also loved the school "motto" — "Great spirit of adventure." Lovely touch.

    …apart from the very forced "hating soldier" stuff and the scene at the end – that 'arc'/idea isn't really working for me at the moment.


  27. Richard Pugree
    September 27, 2014 @ 1:14 pm

    Yes, that scene was pretty uncomfortable. As you say, it could go either way really. But something Moffat said on Extra was concerning, if I heard him right. I think it was something along the lines of: 'the Doctor shows off in front of girls and doesn't like it when there are other men around who might get their attention. He has to be the alpha male'.


  28. ScarvesandCelery
    September 27, 2014 @ 1:33 pm

    I've just seen that clip, and sort of agree, though I think Moffat may have a point – think about the difference between the third Doctor's relationships with Jo and the Brigadier, or the difference between the way the Fourth Doctor treats Sarah Jane and Harry. It's never as explicit as it is here, but it is there. And Moffat does add that "it's not straightforward jealousy"


  29. ScarvesandCelery
    September 27, 2014 @ 1:58 pm

    Also, my Rankings:

    Deep Breath/ The Caretaker
    Deep Breath/ The Caretaker
    Into the Dalek
    Robot of Sherwood
    Time Heist


  30. Anton B
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:01 pm

    Oooh I missed the motto. That's a much better call out than a William Russel cameo. I'll watch out for it on my second viewing. Thinking about it, every episode this series has demanded a second viewing but this is the first one where I'm actually looking forward to it.


  31. macrogers
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:03 pm

    Race is kinda huge in this episode, to the point where I’m really wondering how it’s gonna play for US viewers. (I don’t have much knowledge of Brit race representations/anxieties.) You’ve got the Doctor refusing to believe a black man can be anything other than a PE teacher (which is a whole other issue in itself), the Doctor telling a black teen girl to go to her “shoplifting” class, and a white police officer hassling two black teens. My guess from a production standpoint this is Roberts & Moffat writing the ep the same way they would if all the actors were white, and then on the casting end laudably working for more diversity on the show. And then having these things come together in perhaps not the most careful, thoughtful manner. Again, as I say, this stuff may resonate completely differently in the UK, and I’m nothing but glad to see more black principal characters on Doctor Who, but as the show gets increasingly international it’s going to run up against the race triggers of other nations.


  32. macrogers
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:04 pm

    Also, I really liked this one. Maybe i should've led with that?


  33. Anton B
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:16 pm

    Wow! What a series this is turning out to be. I really enjoyed the pacing and the dialogue in this one. Demands to be watched again before I comment in depth. One observation- The Doctor's attitude to Clara' s 'boyfriend mistake' is interesting. He approves of her apparantly choosing a Matt Smith lookalike but is appalled when she seems to have chosen someone closer to the War Doctor, the soldier persona he himself had to reject. He wants Clara to be like him. Could he be training her for high office? Is Clara destined to leave Coal Hill for the Time Lord Academy? If so, I wonder if the anti-soldier thing is an ingrained Time Lord requirement rather than just a quirky phobia?


  34. Spacewarp
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:17 pm

    In "The Writers Tale" RTD states that he co-authored loads but because he never co-credited himself from the start he couldn't then begin doing it later on, as viewers might assume that the main author's work wasn't up to scratch, so he kind of painted himself into a corner, even thought Julie Gardner kept badgering him to take credit where it was due. Perhaps Moffat has learned from that mistake and is making sure that he is now credited for what he does anyway.

    On the ratings front I fully expect "Time Heist" to crack at least 7.1 million on consolidated as the timeshift is bigger this season than last. "Listen" got the largest timeshift of the new series so far – 31.5%. Sky boxes in the UK have such large capacity now that it's almost a matter of course for viewers to record loads of things that they may or may not delete in the next week, and word of how good a programme was on the night probably persuades more people to watch rather than delete. With the good press that this series is getting, the overnights may stay down but the finals will keep going up.


  35. Spacewarp
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:23 pm

    Danny's race is pretty much transparent to UK viewers I suspect, in the same way as Mickey's was back in the day. It will be interesting to see what the US feels about it. I remember the fury from some US posters on Gallifrey Base over the 9th Doctor's comment on "no domestics in the TARDIS". UK viewers of course knew this meant "domestic argument" between Rose and Mickey, but US viewers seemed to think the Doctor was calling Mickey on being black (as in "domestic servant").


  36. Anton B
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:29 pm

    Speaking as a teacher, none of those concerns occured to me on initial viewing. The, mostly, succesful multi-cultural mix in the majority of British inner city schools would provide equal opportunities for shoplifting and trespassing behaviour amongst black, white and Asian students. I'm sure the 'P.E. teacher' jibe was in no way intended by the writers to be taken as a racial slur by the Doctor, merely a reiteration of his prejudice against soldiers. I think we're getting a similar case of trans-Atlantic crossed cultural wires here as the black 'scrap metal merchants' caused in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS last series.


  37. Richard Pugree
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:34 pm

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  38. Richard Pugree
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:35 pm

    This was meant to be a reply to Anton B, above.


  39. Richard Pugree
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:36 pm

    Well, certainly the implication in Listen was that the military was where young Gallifreyans who wouldn't make it into the Academy were sent. So while it might not be an ingrained Time Lord requirement, it would certainly be an ingrained result of a hierarchical education system – not a phobia of soldiers as such, but of superiority to them.

    But in the Doctor's particular case, it seemed he went to the Academy for the opposite reason – precisely because he didn't want to be a soldier – even though he wasn't perhaps an obvious choice for there – whether that was because of a lack of academic ability, or the wrong attitude, or his class background.

    (This is all assuming that the young Doctor didn't want to be a soldier for moral reasons, rather than that as a result of the tiered system he just didn't want to go to the second best)

    So, there's a some sort of private education critique going on here as well as the overt anti soldier one.


  40. Anton B
    September 27, 2014 @ 2:42 pm

    Indeed. It's reminiscent of the British upper class hierarchical tradition of first sons joining the army (as officers of course) before coming into their inheritance, second sons going into politics and third sons joining the clergy. Danny's put down of the Doctor as recognizably officer class really hit home. I don't recall him ever being so angry with a human before.


  41. Dustin
    September 27, 2014 @ 3:01 pm

    The "shoplifting" bit was screamingly uncomfortable. And I don't think it's "crossed cultural wires" to wonder about the unexamined class-and-race assumptions of a writer who'd pen a line like that.


  42. John Peacock
    September 27, 2014 @ 3:01 pm

    I recently watched Season 7 and it looks like he's been doing these character inserts for a while – each episode of 7b has a bit where Clara is learning to deal with travelling on the Tardis. Second time around, by the way, the episodes are much better, possibly because now I know where they're going and can just let them happen, something which works very much to the benefit of Clara, the character, and Jenna Coleman's performance. And second time around, The Time of the Doctor is wonderful.

    W/r/t the ratings: there's very little point to watch the X Factor at any other time than broadcast, and I'd guess that very few people watch it twice. On the other hand, Dr Who doesn't suffer from being time shifted and a number of people watch it several times, so as far as ratings are concerned, they're very different creatures. So, I'd be surprised if the X Factor lost in the overnight ratings battle. People will still be watching these episodes years from now, long after the eventual X Factor winner has been completely forgotten.

    (That seemed a bit meaner than I intended it to.)


  43. You Know Who...
    September 27, 2014 @ 3:20 pm

    Actually, the cop hassling the two black kids seemed deliberate and sly – notice how the two boys realise there isn't much point in arguing, and just leave. (And the patent teacher conference between Danny and Courtney's parents worked much better than it would have of Danny were white.)


  44. Carey
    September 27, 2014 @ 3:33 pm

    The "shoplifting" bit was screamingly uncomfortable. And I don't think it's "crossed cultural wires" to wonder about the unexamined class-and-race assumptions of a writer who'd pen a line like that.

    Actually, I'd say the scene is supposed to be uncomfortable and reinforced by Danny's summing up of the Doctor as a Lord and an officer used to giving orders.

    I think there is a US/UK culture clash here: the UK are far more critical of their officer class soldiers than the US, mostly dating back to World War 1 and the initial ineptitude of the career officer who were totally unprepaired for the carnage of the western front (taken to its furthest with Stephen Fry's general Melchet in Blackadder goes Forth, but equally in many cinema works from the 60's onwards. And the War Games, of course).

    And this is the latest in a series of scripts this series that is about examining the Doctor's character and finding fault. In particular, there is a deliberate class conflict going on between the working class Danny and the upper class Doctor. Interestingly enough, this is reinforced by the acting styles of the two main leads: Samuel Anderson is very much a naturalistic actor, and a contrast to Peter Capaldi's non-naturalistic style of playing the Doctor. Anderson's acting reflects the solidity and steadiness of Danny's character, while Capaldi, as Doctor Sandifer points out, picks his approach on a scene by scene basis, and reflects the mercury inherent within. The revelation this series has been Coleman, who has he ability to fit in with both acting styles, and more than that, cope with both simultaneously.

    Finally, something that occurred to me a while back, and has great ramifications in this episode. Doctor 11 was always described as an old man in a young body (reinforced by Smith's approach to playing him), and the presumption is that 12 is very much a young man in an old body. But what was never made clear, but has revealed itself over the series, is Capladi's Doctor is a teenager in an old man's body. This first occurred to me on a rematch of Deep Breath when it became apparent that the whole character arc of the Doctor in that story was "accept me for me." The"Am I a good man" scene in Into The Dalek is something only a teenager would think of asking; and the attempt to pop the heroism of another in Robot of Sherlock is similarly something a teenager would do (the only thing missing was the Doctor saying Robin Hood was childish). On a metatextual level this is an especially interesting road to take considering the youngest of viewers introduced to Doctor Who in 2005 would now be teenagers themselves and at an age they would grow out of supposedly childish things such as Doctor Who.

    As to the Caretaker?Not my favourite story so far, but incredibly enjoyable and, I think, a story that will need to be reassessed at the end of the series as I think it's latin a lot of groundwork for the finale.


  45. Dustin
    September 27, 2014 @ 3:38 pm

    I was referring to the Doctor's line to "Disruptive Influence," the student whose name I can't remember. The military politics between Danny and the Doctor, I'm sorry to say, could not be of less interest to me.


  46. Carey
    September 27, 2014 @ 3:39 pm

    I forgot to add this earlier, but favourite scene in The Caretaker? Danny standing in front of the Tardis, taking it all in, framed by Clara on one side, and the Doctor on the other. And the Doctor looks at Clara, but Clara looks only at Danny, and he doesn't look at her at all. And the hurt in the Doctor's eyes is palpable.


  47. Carey
    September 27, 2014 @ 3:47 pm

    Yes, but you seem to be judging it as the writers thoughts. They're not. They're the Doctor's, and I think, given context within the episode, that you're supposed to question him saying them, not the writers.

    And her name is Courtney: it was said several times within the story, and several times in stories previous to this.


  48. Alex Antonijevic
    September 27, 2014 @ 4:16 pm

    I think people viewing the whole "black man P.E" teacher thing are perhaps still stuck in a racist mindset. It seemed very clear that the Doctor was only saying that in regards to him being a soldier. The Doctor doesn't seem like the sort of guy to make comments like that based on race. I feel like that scene would play the same if Danny had been played by a white man.


  49. Brightcoat
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:17 pm


    Sod off.


  50. Pen Name Pending
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:22 pm

    I was thinking the same thing…a shot at him being a soldier. Which is still a prejudice, but not a racial one, and not one anyone sides with the Doctor on.


  51. BerserkRL
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:23 pm

    COAL HILL HEADMASTER: I'm the Headmaster here. Doctor, eh? Well, you're a bit over-qualified for the position, but if you would like to leave your particulars and references —
    DOCTOR: References?
    COAL HILL HEADMASTER: You are here for the job of school caretaker?

    — Remembrance of the Daleks


  52. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:26 pm

    I really shouldn't need to say this, but telling other posters to sod off is kind of the exclusive privilege of the guy who owns the blog. Everyone else gets to express their disagreement in more polite ways.

    All of which said, I think Alex has the complete wrong of it. As I said, the intent was absolutely clear. I don't even think the scene should necessarily have been played any differently. But… oof.


  53. TheSmilingStallionInn
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:28 pm

    Personally, I'm thrilled that there is a Courtney because that is my name and I like her last name Woods as well.


  54. Jarl
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:30 pm

    When the Doctor is standing in the caretaker's, uh, "office", lamenting the fact that he hangs out with humans, I thought for sure "Okay, here it comes, Ian shows up and they have a big hug-it-out." And then Courtney showed up and I was bummed out.

    That intergalactic killing machine sure was adorable, wasn't it?

    The Doctor knowing Jane Austen's story because he read the biography feels like a really obvious punchline to a fifty year running joke that, try as I might, I can't remember them ever doing before.

    The Promised Land and Heaven are conclusively described as the same location, meaning my Mondas/Cyberiad theory is somewhat battered, but not yet deep fried.


  55. Brightcoat
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:31 pm

    sorry. I've run into that particular sentiment far too often and in boils my blood something awful. Sincerest apologies.


  56. Jarl
    September 27, 2014 @ 5:32 pm

    This is the second time (at least) since An Unearthly Child that the Doctor's blown up parts of Coal Hill School. Ian probably wants to deck him by now.


  57. UrsulaL
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:04 pm

    Danny's pretty much the opposite of John in Sherlock, at least so far.

    John is someone who was in the military, in combat, and misses it. The adrenaline, the danger, etc.

    Danny was in the military, but what he misses is not the excitement of combat, but rather digging wells and helping people. He can and will face danger, and do so successfully. He knows the temptation of a commander who can help you be a better and more powerful person, and the danger of being pushed too far, either physically, emotionally, or into danger.


  58. Matthew Blanchette
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:05 pm

    How would Ian even recognize the Doctor, much less know it's the same man he traveled through time with?


  59. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:07 pm

    There are, I agree, huge differences. But there's also, in both cases, the idea of soldiers as people who have, in a very fundamental way, been pushed to the limits of human experience. Both Danny and John are post-traumatic characters in a very fundamental way.


  60. UrsulaL
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:13 pm

    Is Danny post traumatic? He's certainly frustrated that all anyone else cares about is whether he's killed. But that's not PTSD.

    From what I've seen, so far, Danny seems to be in a good place, when it comes to mental health.


  61. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:14 pm

    The crying in Into the Dalek suggests at least something he has trouble dealing with.


  62. inkdestroyedmybrush
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:17 pm

    this should be no secret. look no further than the end of last episode where the Doctor basically says, "We robbed an entire bank. Lets see a date top that." yes, the doctor has always been the alpha male in the TARDIS. its not a moffat thing, its a Docotr character trait that has been there since Pertwee's era, or even earlier. Its not misogyny, its moffat continuing a thread on the character that has been there for 40 years. You may not like it, since it does paint the Doctor in a negative light, but it has been there.


  63. inkdestroyedmybrush
    September 27, 2014 @ 6:38 pm

    this episode was braver than i thought, almost as brave as i wanted the Rings last season to be… but they decided, for whatever reason, not to pull it off. nicely done here. after the initial fumbling of the Incredible Journey and Robots of whatever out of the way, we're moving to meat of the season. This is a far more complex emotional journey than we've seen before from the companions of the TARDIS and significant others. Whether they can pull it off i don't know, but they're clearly trying.

    I predict right now that Moffatt will have to deal with accusations of sexism and a degree of misogyny because neither of his male protagonists will be perfect. there will be jealously and some lying and some unflattering sides comign out along the way. And it will be seen as his voice, as opposed to the characters. And its going to make me want to opt out of a lot of the comments sections because you can only make the case so many times that imperfect characters are far more dramatic than perfect ones. I predict that it will get ugly by season's end in that regard. Shame,since we're seeing a good run of a couple of episodes here. I hope that it continues.

    The intro to the TARDIS scene here is interesting, with Danny deciding not to walk in. how many people, having seen how big it is on the inside decide not to test the theory and not walk in? Danny, as much blindsided by Clara's lies to him as the nature of the TARDIS itself decides to walk away and process. that is not the usual reaction. We've had a lot of "red herring" companions, since the soldier in Into the Dalek, and taking Courntey on a trip at the end of this shows a transition as well. We no longer have a firm grasp on the Tardis and what and who will travel in it.


  64. BerserkRL
    September 27, 2014 @ 7:10 pm

    This is obvious, but I'll say it anyway: at least in the religious systems that prevail in our society, "Nethersphere" is a more plausible synonym for Hell than for Heaven.


  65. Ed Azad
    September 27, 2014 @ 7:19 pm

    This is the first episode since "Into the Dalek" that I entirely liked. Yes, it began "Time wimey" and clever, clever". But I think Danny acquitted himself well, and is a worthy successor to Ian. He brings out the best in the main duo, who are pretty insufferable when left to their own devices.

    I especially liked the score with its space age flutes. It's a really good hook and a nice contrast from Eleven's bombast.


  66. Adam Riggio
    September 27, 2014 @ 8:02 pm

    I found this episode quite brilliant, not just because I love the tone and style of Gareth Roberts' comedies, but because The Caretaker tackled so explicitly issues of race and class. I say some more about it on my own blog, which I like to show off on Phil's comment threads because I give him credit every post as such an inspiration to me, and because folks from here seem to like what I have to say.

    But in short form, Danny takes charge of how his conflict with the Doctor is coded: in terms of class. The Doctor is a Lord, an officer, and his goose-stepping when he first enters the TARDIS very effectively gets on the Doctor's nerves. It's a short fuse for the Doctor, because he's always identified with the working classes, because they're so frequently oppressed or controlled by a self-interested ruling class. The Doctor fights decadent immoral people, and his heroism is defined by his role at a catalyst of social upheaval and liberation of the oppressed.

    Yet the Doctor is also a figure from the ruling class. Mark Gatiss put the matter explicitly (because he's not the best at subtext) in Robot of Sherwood. The Doctor is a man of privilege who gave up his privilege as unjust. But he always looks like he's privileged. He wears nice suits, he's absurdly well-educated (at least compared to humans, and he didn't always get along with his teachers). The only Doctor who explicitly dressed in the trappings of the lower class was Eccleston, who wore a simple leather jacket and spoke with an accent explicitly associated in the UK with a working class region, Manchester. But Hartnell, Pertwee, both Bakers, Davison, the early McGann, Smith, and Capaldi all dress as aristocrats. Tennant dressed like a nouveau riche geek, and Troughton dressed like a professor (albeit an underemployed prof). He'll never be able to escape his privileged upbringing and manners, no matter how hard he tries. And it grates on him.


  67. nimonus
    September 27, 2014 @ 8:23 pm

    As, I think, does his over-the-top discussion with Clara at the end of this story, in which he makes her promise to tell him if the Doctor ever pushes her too far, won't accept "it's a deal", but insists on "I promise" and makes it an explicit condition of any continued relationship.

    I think the critical part of that conversation is when he follows "If he ever pushes you too far, I want you to tell me" with "[I]because I know what that is like.[/I]"

    In his first appearance, the very first thing we learn about Danny is that he killed a civilian, and deeply regrets it. And in this story, I think, it is implied that like all war criminals, he was "just following orders".

    I think his discomfort with the Doctor comes from much the same place that the Doctor's discomfort with him: They remind each other far too much of parts of their past that they want to forget. And the stridency of his final conversation with Clara comes from imagining her potentially facing the same pressures he did, and being desperate for a different outcome.


  68. nimonus
    September 27, 2014 @ 8:37 pm

    It is an obvious tactic to normalize and justify racial power imbalances in society, by claiming that any acknowledgement that they exist is "divisive". Obvious in the sense that it is transparent to anyone with any sense what the real objective behind such claims is – to justify the unconscionable status quo – but not so obvious that lots of less than clever people with a vested interest in that racist status quo aren't able to talk themselves into actually believing it.


  69. nimonus
    September 27, 2014 @ 8:49 pm


    I agree, that scene comes off as possessive. We will have to see, though, if that dynamic shows up in other contexts, or only in this one. Because I don't think it even really about Clara. I think it is about himself, and his own guilt over what he did when he let the officers under whom he served push him too far. He's being unreasonable, and it is icky that Clara is getting caught up in it, but I don't think this scene is indicative of their relationship as a whole so much as it is of his PTSD and guilt at killing a civilian.


  70. Nick Smale
    September 27, 2014 @ 10:08 pm

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  71. Nick Smale
    September 27, 2014 @ 10:10 pm

    a simple leather jacket

    That's a German U-Boat commander's deck coat — an officer's uniform.


  72. Dave Workman
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:17 pm

    I'll add to the praise of Courtney. Working in a school in South London, the characterisation was spot on accurate to me (although watching Doctor Who Extra makes me think the actress brought lots of herself to the role)
    I should probably also admit that the actress who played Angie is a member of the Saturday morning youth theatre I run. To be fair, she didn't tell any of us she was appearing in the show (we're not the kind of group who gets casting directors in or stuff like that), but I should probably take some of the blame, although obviously I'll deflect that onto the writers and directors…


  73. Prandeamus
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:47 pm

    I'm a white middle aged English professional who tries not to be racist. I think I do a fair job of that but I have failings like the rest of us do.

    My only conscious race related thought during the episode was "lots of black faces this week. Oh I suppose that would be realistic given the location" I then just watched the episode. The pe teacher jibe I felt was entirely based on being an ex soldier. Sure, your mileage will vary.

    The policemen/kids scene did not seem like a race thing either. He calls them out for truancy, they offer a lame excuse which they know he won't really believe, and they shuffle off (kids under 17 don't get free periods during the school day and free periods are usually spend in study rooms, to my knowledge)

    Now the thing that could be debated is "is Courtney disruptive because she's black?" Even so I think that would be a tenuous argument at best.


  74. Spacewarp
    September 27, 2014 @ 11:57 pm

    @John Peacock. Far from it, I thought that was very charitable of you. I can't even remember who won last year's X Factor (if I even cared).

    "The Caretaker" garnered 4.89 million last night, and as usual it'll pick up Phil's missing 2 million over the week.


  75. Richard Pugree
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:32 am


    "Its not misogyny, its moffat continuing a thread on the character that has been there for 40 years. You may not like it, since it does paint the Doctor in a negative light, but it has been there."

    That doesn't mean it's not misogyny.

    I agree and I hope that it's followed through properly, is all.

    What I found unsettling about the Clara/Danny scene at the end was not so much his behaviour, but Clara not calling him on it, which seemed out of character. Although it quite possibly fits with her caregiving/making-excuses-for role with the Doctor so far (itself potentially very dodgy but has just about worked so far I think), given that we've seen so little of Clara and Danny's relationship on screen it 's difficult to know how much of Danny's trauma she has picked up on and is responding to.


  76. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:42 am

    The Doctor fixating on Danny being PE teacher could have been him acknowledging his physical prowess – which comes out later with the astonishing somersault over the robot.


  77. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:49 am

    Dunno, for me I didn't feel the discussion of the sofa from Danny was possessive. It felt like real fear for Clara and being honest about the possible consequences of putting one's absolute trust in an officer type that danny already does not trust. I read the 'not being able to stay together' as darkly hinting at his fears that Clara may be damaged or experience worse. Real fears as he's seen what wars can do to people.


  78. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:53 am

    Good call BerserkRL!


  79. Burk Diggler
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:54 am

    Nice article!


  80. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 2:07 am

    Adore the direction the show is going in. For me this feels like the strongest run of episodes in a new season that we have had for ages. Love the way that the show is slowed down and shot so differently to allow for the relationship interactions to unfold. Danny – amazing character and the confrontation between him and the Doctor in the Tardis is maybe one of my favourites ever – a scene that has been waiting to be spoken for so long. Love it. His intelligence and insight is written as very acute, and his ability to understand the motivations of the Doctor gets underneath his skin.


  81. Matthew Celestis
    September 28, 2014 @ 2:36 am

    What other subject would the Brigadier have taught at a public school? PE might have been a challenge at his age.

    Mathematics is a relevant subject for a man whose career has involved administration and logistics.


  82. Daibhid C
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:13 am

    As the person who brought up Angie as being annoying, I should clarify; the actress was great, she was just great at playing a character who had been written as someone who would get on my nerves. And that probably says more about me than the character anyway. (I'm not comfortable around kids IRL, with the exception of my niece and nephew.)


  83. Daibhid C
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:14 am

    Oh, hey, regarding how much of the Danny story was written by the Moff, it's just occurred to me that "it's like they've got minds of their own" is a line from Coupling.


  84. Spacewarp
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:20 am

    I'll reiterate this. Phil's comment on being not sure about "the white Doctor assuming the black man can only be a P.E. teacher" is 100% misunderstanding. The vast majority of UK viewers watching this will not even see a "black man". If they even acknowledge that he's of mixed parentage, the concept of him being "black" wouldn't even occur to them. In the same way as Colin Powell being referred to as "a black man" in the US mystifies us in the UK (how can he be black when he's not actually "black"?).

    We've had nigh on 50 years in this country where people of different races have been marrying and bringing up children, who in turn have been doing the same, so now we have a society where mixed-race people are our friends, our work colleagues, our husbands, wives, lovers, parents and our children. I suspect it is to do with the UK being a far less isolated country than the US, with lots of us half-French, German, Swedish, Polish, Russian, Nigerian, Jamaican, Indian, Kenyan…

    Trust us on this. The Doctor doesn't notice Danny's skin colour. Clara doesn't notice it. The kids in the school don't notice it, and the rest of the teachers don't notice it. There's no issue with Clara going out with him, and there hasn't been for at least 30 years now (though ITRL Clara's parents might still feel lingering unease). The writers don't notice, the Directors don't notice. Moffat doesn't notice and the viewers don't notice. Samuel Anderson didn't get the audition because they were looking for a "black" man, but because he acted well and fit the character descriptions. and I'd go so far as to say I bet there was no mention of his skin colour in the scripts (which is something some posters can probably check). The same goes for the "cop" telling off the black kids, although I'll admit that they were in the scene possibly to reinforce Coal Hill's "inner city" status, and because for some weird reason black child actors do "cheeky" better than white ones.

    With the shoe on the other foot, "Asian" means something different to a US viewer than it does to a UK one, probably something that we Brits don't appreciate. It always cracks me up when I see references to "Asian Porn" because it obviously means Japanese, but it just says Indian women in saris to me.


  85. John
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:28 am

    I'm not sure Colin Baker dressed as anything recognizable in human class terms. McCoy's style, which you don't mention, seems pretty middle class (certainly not working class, but not upper class, either).


  86. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:29 am

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  87. Richard Pugree
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:05 am

    Spacewarp: thank you for answering something I've been pondering for a while! I've noticed that over the years a number of my friends adopting the American usage of Asian (more than other Americanisms), and wondered whether I'd missed a meeting. But of course – It's a straight porn thing!


  88. Aylwin
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:14 am

    I suspect it is to do with the UK being a far less isolated country than the US, with lots of us half-French, German, Swedish, Polish, Russian, Nigerian, Jamaican, Indian, Kenyan…

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but…seriously?


  89. TheOncomingHurricane
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:18 am

    @Spacewarp You'd be right. The description given in Into the Dalek is 'DANNY PINK. Late twenties, a strapping big lad, handsome.' That's all there is.


  90. Lance Parkin
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:25 am

    'as the show gets increasingly international it’s going to run up against the race triggers of other nations'

    Let's be honest, here, the issue is not that – to pick three countries that got same-day broadcasts of The Day of the Doctor – Slovaks, Somalians and the Nepalese are being triggered. What the anxiety is here is that American viewers are encountering attitudes that are not American attitudes.

    The poster who went on to say that Gareth Roberts has 'unexamined' issues around race and class … I can sink that battleship really easily. Gareth used to be my boss on a soap opera. He wrestled literally every day with issues of depictions of class, race, gender, representations of minorities, issues with casting, with 'realism'. I was in the room when he did that examining.

    He's examined this stuff, he's just coming to different answers. And why is that? Is that because there's one answer and he's got it wrong?

    The makers of Rose did not 'make the bold choice to depict an interracial relationship', they 'cast Noel Clarke'. The assumption that an inner city kid is a shoplifter is class prejudice, not racial prejudice – and it's clearly a story about the Doctor's 'unexamined' class issues, and it's clearly a story where the Doctor is found wanting.

    The way American shows train you to view television will hinder as often as it helps when you're watching Doctor Who. American TV is routinely misogynistic, violent, tokenistic and values conformity, mistakes the status quo for utopia. Exhibit A; TNG. Exhibit B: The West Wing. And those are the good shows. But that's not the main problem. The main problem is that American shows all work at face value. They say what they're doing, they do it. You're meant to accept that Picard or Bartlet have come up with the best answer. You're meant to like them. The drumbeat behind every American show, without exception, is deference and obedience. If not to the state – and it's usually to the state – then to the family.

    That is, basically, the entire and complete opposite of how all British television works. Well, except Downton Abbey. Doctor Who is a show about disobedience being good, about how the status quo is an illusion or a cage. Clue's in the title – it's about questioning, not answering.


  91. Lance Parkin
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:31 am

    As is his wont, Gareth said what I just said far more succinctly, in the episode itself: the very highest form of praise in Doctor Who is 'disruptive influence'. That's what means you win.


  92. Aylwin
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:35 am

    We've had at least one implicit nudge that way already, on Missy's first appearance: "Welcome to…[weird, perversely amused and knowing look of ironical bliss]…heaven." Mind you, the terminology of a "netherworld" or "underworld" is perhaps most typically applied to systems where all the dead end up broadly in the same place, even if there are different departments for different sorts of people.

    Interestingly different glimpse of it this time – more bureaucratic and much more functional, with echoes of A Matter of Life and Death and, well, all the other things that have borrowed from A Matter of Life and Death.


  93. Aylwin
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:45 am

    Liking the Dirk Gently dialogue lift.


  94. dm
    September 28, 2014 @ 5:00 am

    1) The bit about the Doctor assuming Clara's ideal man was the professional Matt Smith lookalike was cute, but could have done with being pointed out in dialogue a bit less.

    Agreed. The look on Capaldi's face was all that was needed to sell that lovely gag. The dialogue was surplus to requirement. Writers take note: this doctor really can do it all with a look.


  95. dm
    September 28, 2014 @ 5:10 am

    @Lance: I'm with you 99% of the way, but have you given Orange is the New Black a go? It is really remarkably ambiguous, questioning and anti-authoritarian for an US show.


  96. Pen Name Pending
    September 28, 2014 @ 5:17 am

    I also thought he was mostly worried about her being safe and not being there if she wasn't. Not being able to be with a loved one when they are in danger and instead hearing of all the awful things that happened to them while you were powerless is a fear in any relationship from any member of the relationship. And Danny didn't seem to be ordering her to not travel with the Doctor, and certainly not because he was afraid she'd get too friendly with the Doctor when he wasn't around, which would be the real offense. He just wants their relationship to be honest, and if he was constantly worrying about her being in danger, he wanted her to know that maybe that was the sort of relationship he was not ready for and could not honestly continue.

    (Also they have never been portrayed as the best relationship ever, either.)

    Mostly I am just going to say that based on interviews, this seems to be foreshadowing for something with next week's episode.


  97. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 5:23 am

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  98. Aylwin
    September 28, 2014 @ 5:41 am

    American TV…mistakes the status quo for utopia…Exhibit B: The West Wing.

    How's that? The West Wing presents the status quo as essentially viable and susceptible to reform, but that's a long way from presenting it as utopia. Oh, for sure, pretty much every episode in the early seasons has its lump-in-the-throat, tear-in-the-eye, flag-saluting moment with stirring, swelling music, which it's virtually impossible to watch while not being American without rolling about on the floor weeping with laughter. It comes from a, "the system isn't broken" viewpoint. But the conclusion it draws from that is that it is unacceptable to shrink from acting boldly to right wrongs and reform society and to excuse this timidity by protesting that a rotten system will not permit serious change.

    In so far as the world of the Bartlett Administration is conceived in ideal terms (which is by no means completely), it is idealised as a contrast to the status quo, part wistful, part exasperated – the central message throughout is "It doesn't have to be like this! Look!". Some utopias are more radical than others, but all are necessarily critiques of the status quo.

    And aside from the merits of particular cases, the problem with presenting an example or two as proof of a sweepingly generalisation is that it tends to be all too easy to come up with counter-examples. Exhibit A: The Wire. Exhibit B: Oz. Exhibit C: Mad Men. See how this goes?

    Mind you, even if I had never seen a minute of American or British television, I'd know enough to dismiss out of hand statements containing phrases like "all British television", let alone "every American show, without exception". Now just maybe that was all ironic hyperbole, but it really doesn't read that way. And if it is meant sincerely then it's complacent nonsense.


  99. dm
    September 28, 2014 @ 5:58 am

    God, doesn't Deep Breath feel a million years ago now? Now that the new house style is so firmly entrenched, that first ep feels a lot like a band's awkward transitional album- think The Cure's The Top (although, really, I think it is one of the most consistently interesting things Robert Smith has ever done)

    1. Listen
    2. Into the Dalek
    3. The Caretaker
    4. Robots of Sherwood
    5. Deep Breath
    6. Time Heist


  100. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 6:02 am

    Yeah thanks. It does feel like the fear of seeing someone you love giving maybe too much of themselves to another you perceive that could put that loved one at risk. And yes I'd agree that in no way does he imply that he doesn't want her to stop travelling with the Doctor.


  101. Lance Parkin
    September 28, 2014 @ 6:07 am

    "@Lance: I'm with you 99% of the way, but have you given Orange is the New Black a go? It is really remarkably ambiguous, questioning and anti-authoritarian for an US show."

    As a Weeds fan, I watched the first two episodes, but haven't yet been able to shut up the voice in my head going 'Weeds Season 6B'.

    Weeds is a pretty good example of subversion on US TV, come to think of it.


  102. Lance Parkin
    September 28, 2014 @ 6:10 am

    "And if it is meant sincerely then it's complacent nonsense."

    There's only one T in 'Bartlet'.


  103. C.
    September 28, 2014 @ 6:18 am

    Seeing a lot of back-patting and rather enormous generalizations about American culture and politics from some UK commenters in this thread.


  104. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 6:29 am

    @ C – To clarify for myself what I was agreeing with was really Spacewarp's comments on the Doctor's responses to Danny. I don't have any comments to make about things UK vs US. Don't like generalisations.


  105. Pen Name Pending
    September 28, 2014 @ 6:43 am

    I mean maybe it wasn't as clear as it could have been–or we are so worried it's going to be problematic that it takes the forefront–but it wasn't nearly as terrible as I had been promised. I'm also of the belief that most relationships aren't pitch-perfect, an argument that is best made from the female perspective, but regardless I think this is more foreshadowing than anything. Danny was clearly amazed at how capable she was and allowed her to travel as much as she wants, as long as she keeps a level head about it, and her attempt to "call him out" on that would read more like "How dare you tell me you're uncomfortable with me being in danger," at least from my perspective.


  106. Spacewarp
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:08 am

    @Alwin. I think I get what you mean there. Yes the US is made up almost totally of mixed-race immigrants (Dutch, Spanish, English, Irish, Scottish etc), but those major immigrations are at least a hundred years in the past. The UK has had a constant and far more recent influx of foreign immigrants since at least the late 40s (starting with the Windrush), altering the cultural makeup of our towns and cities by the decade.


  107. Richard Pugree
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:10 am

    "and allowed her to travel as much as she wants"

    That was good of him…


  108. lasthussar
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:12 am

    Yes, the Doctor did make an assumption. Squaddies become PE teachers, not Maths teacher. That was it – his prejudice was stereotyping soldiers. Race had nothing to do with it. That was purely viewers watching mapping their own prejudices on- specifically "Any negative comment about a character who is being portrayed by a non-white actor is racism."

    I bet every teacher watching was smiling about Courtney, before the character was introduced – from friends who are teachers there is always one. The fact Courtney cheerfully introduces herself as 'Disruptive Influence' immediately put the Doctor on her side without any consideration of race. And it's obvious why she is disruptive – she bored because she's too bright.

    Why did the PCSO pick on the 2 black schoolkids out of school during school hours?
    THEY WERE SCHOOL KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL DURING SCHOOL HOURS. This means they were Up To Something. Lots of newsagents and convenience stores have a sign in the window – "No more than 2 schoolchildren at any one time". That is race-blind; that is because can you trust 8 kids in a sweet shop? They don't.


  109. Spacewarp
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:14 am

    I rewatched "Deep Breath" this morning, and was surprised to see that Courtney was in that too, in Clara's blink and you'll miss her dream sequence where the class is out of control.


  110. Aylwin
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:31 am

    those major immigrations are at least a hundred years in the past

    Those ones, yes. Other ones, emphatically no.


  111. C.
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:32 am

    in re "no major immigrations in the US," there is this to consider, from Wikipedia:

    "The United States admitted more legal immigrants from 1991 to 2000, between ten to eleven million, than in any previous decade…By 1970, immigrants accounted for 4.7 percent of the US population and rising to 6.2 percent in 1980, with an estimated 12.5 percent in 2009. As of 2010, 25% of US residents under age 18 were first- or second-generation immigrants."

    That last percentage is the big one. Essentially, this is America of 2050, which is going to be a much different country, demographically, than the US of my childhood in the '70s.

    Whether there will be assimilation among immigrants and "older" American nationalities (such as the Irish and Italians etc) to the extent of (apparently) the UK is another question, of course. But the US is quite certainly undergoing a demographic change at present.


  112. Adam Riggio
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:35 am

    Good eye, Nick! I'd forgotten that Eccleston dressed as a Navy officer.

    John: If you watch a Colin Baker show on a black and white screen, he has a frilly tie, a vest, and a pocketwatch. McCoy dressed kind of like G. E. Moore to my eye.


  113. macrogers
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:50 am

    Mr. Parkin, I feel bound to respond because you seem to have called out my comment specifically. You seem to be saying that “The Caretaker” only triggered American racial anxieties, and not those of any other nation. This may well be true. I can’t speak for other nations, nor do I know what your qualifications are for doing so. Still, as you yourself quoted, what I wrote was “as the show gets increasingly international it’s going to run up against the race triggers of other nations”. You oddly seem to be reading a cultural observation as a criticism, either of the episode or Gareth Roberts himself. Some other episode may bump up against the racial anxieties – or some other anxieties – of some other country. This blog has often concerned itself with understanding Doctor Who’s cultural context over straight-up-or-down reviewing, and my comment was very much in that spirit. I wasn’t saying “It’s evil that these scenes are in the show” but rather “these scenes, in another cultural context, conjure vivid, pressing, relevant associations in the United States.” (In the wake of attempts by the Ferguson, MO police to minimize the shooting of Mike Brown by suggesting he’d stolen some cigars just before his murder made the “shoplifting” moment particularly fraught for this one American viewer, though it’s possible that I overstate the case for others.)

    I don’t know what – if anything at all – Doctor Who showrunners and writers should do in response to knowing that their material is being increasingly exported to countries with different ways of reading things, culturally. Honestly, the answer may well be “nothing.” I’m no fan of anodyne Hollywood epics with all the idiosyncrasies boiled out of them so they can play roughly the same I any foreign market. As a lifelong fan of Doctor Who, I’d never want it not to be, first and foremost, a British show, though of course how that’s defined will evolve over time. When I was a kid, I had to stay up until 11PM to watch Tom Baker re-runs on a public broadcasting station, and now virtually everyone I know at least knows the show well enough to post Dalek jokes on Facebook. Whether or not Doctor Who is beholden to any national cultures other than the one in which it is made, there’s no doubt that it is increasingly present in those other cultures, and that’s worth thinking out loud about.

    To your point about American vs. British television: I’ve been watching both in roughly equal amounts my entire life, and your “without exception” generalization strikes me as bizarre. The Wire, Parks & Recreation, Scandal, Battlestar Galactica, and Rectify – just to name a few off the top of my head – are all scathingly skeptical of state and family authority, while something like Spooks, which I watched every episode of, is – despite a few bits and bobs of dialogue here and there – incredibly deferential to those structures. It’s entirely possible that there’s much more conformist entertainment in the United States, but there’s no reason for someone who grows up here to have their thoughts utterly colonized by it, or their judgment impaired by it. It’s possible to simply disagree with me without needing to believe that I reached my opinion through brainwashing.

    The UK racial culture described by some in this comment thread does sound remarkable, and quite likely out of reach for the US, at least for a very long time.

    In any case, as to Gareth Roberts himself, I presume to know nothing whatsoever about his mind other than that it has generated some truly terrific stories, and "The Caretaker" is one of them.


  114. Froborr
    September 28, 2014 @ 7:56 am

    So Eccleston wore upper class clothes easily mistaken for lower class clothes? So he was slumming? That's almost too on the nose.


  115. Iain Mew
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:04 am

    Those are much bigger numbers than the UK equivalents.

    As someone else from the UK, I do not recognise Spacewarp's picture of a colour blind attitude to mixed race people in the slightest, and the facts for racial disparity in many different outcomes do not suggest such an equal place.

    To pick a high profile example, I don't remember ever seeing anyone's response to the John Terry racial abuse case being "but Anton Ferdinand isn't even black!"


  116. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:09 am

    I would take the various comments suggesting that the UK is an enlightened post-racial society where nobody "sees race" more seriously if I had not, in the last week alone, read a news story that notes that the Racist Fuckhead party is polling at 17% and another about Mario Balotelli getting racially abused for having the same reaction to Manchester United snatching defeat from the jaws of victory that everyone else did.

    Quick poll – how many of you saying that the UK just doesn't have a racism problem like the US does are actually a member of a non-white racial minority?

    I don't think The Caretaker is racist, although as a white American I'm not entirely the best person to make that judgment. And I think it bizarre that nobody is highlighting some of the more important ways in which the story gets it right. Coal Hill is as racially diverse as an East London school should be. The white policeman harassing black kids is all too common, defensible as it may be in any given instance. And Courtney, the troublemaking black girl, gets to be a companion, and gets to be a companion precisely because she's an unrepentant "disruptive influence." These are all tremendously good things that the story handles confidently and without making a fuss about it, almost as if some of the people working on it have experience doing racially diverse casts where race is part of characterization but not a defining trait on The Sarah Jane Adventures or something.

    I suspect the shoplifting joke would have been better cut or reshaped. I think the "you must be a PE teacher" joke works, though I understand why people would be thrown by it as well. (For my part, I didn't notice it at all until the second watching. I guess I just didn't see Danny as a black man at first glance. Or something.) I don't think the episode is racist. I think it has one line that plays weirdly in amidst an episode that's actually doing some fairly lovely things with race.

    But I think a lot of its defenders in this thread are coming off as blinkered by privilege and with their heads in the sand.


  117. David Anderson
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:16 am

    As a UK commenter, I think Spacewarp is being a bit optimistic about whether we notice that Danny (or Micky or Martha) is black. At the same time, I think it's true that it's not foregrounded if the writers don't want it to be. And I think for the UK viewer the Doctor's PE teacher mockery is sufficiently overdetermined that race doesn't come into it.

    (One of the mistakes the Musketeers made was to cast a black man in one of the roles, and then be unable to decide whether it wanted to be colour blind about it, or foreground it. So we have two stories where it matters that Porthos is black, and six where it doesn't, and because of the contrast both approaches feel off.)
    Utopia gets the balance right, where it makes sense for Ian to be more concerned about potential racism than the other characters, but the actor's race isn't otherwise highlighted.


  118. Froborr
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:19 am

    I really liked this one.

    I enjoyed the scene of the white police officer harassing the black kids, because hey, that's what cops do, at least when they're not shooting the black kids instead.

    The Doctor's "P.E." thing was a little uncomfortable. Yes, it's about the Doctor's distrust of soldiers, but it's still an upper-class white man pretending to be lower-class and refusing to accept that a lower-class black man–no matter how caring and intelligent he has consistently been depicted to be–is anything but a thug.

    But depiction is not endorsement. Capaldi plays the "P.E. teacher" thing with the same sort of prickly confusion that he brings to his lines about Clara's appearance, and of course Pink HAS been consistently portrayed as an intelligent, sensitive, and caring man, as unlike your typical P.E. teacher as it's possible to be.

    And of course it's just setup for Pink to get his own, in that absolutely glorious scene in which he calls out the Doctor as an officer, which is to say for being a privileged upper-class twit who expects to be obeyed because of who he is without bothering to try to earn respect first. It's a glorious scene, played brilliantly by all three actors, and I think surpasses Rory's speech about how dangerous the Doctor is as my favorite instance of a companion giving the Doctor a much-deserved dressing down.

    So yeah, this was fantastically acted, tightly written, funny, and delivered some great new characterization for all three of the principals (pun intended). Clara has finally emerged with a distinct, fully formed personality! Pink is developing into something really interesting! The Doctor continues to be an entertaining asshole!

    Haven't rewatched anything yet, so this is tentative, but I think this might have been my favorite of the season so far.


  119. C.
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:20 am

    the other thing I found a bit wince-causing (though it's obvious it was not the writers' intent) was the Doctor approving of Clara's relationship with a white, posh-seeming man and being hostile to her relationship with a black man. Yes, of course it was meant to show up the Doctor as being vain and approving Clara dating a human version of him, and his disapproval of pink is about Pink's ex-profession. But the optics of it—Doctor visibly delighting in a Clara/white guy pairing and pissed off that she's actually with a black ex-soldier—are not great, to put it mildly.


  120. BerserkRL
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:22 am

    You're meant to accept that Picard or Bartlet have come up with the best answer. You're meant to like them. The drumbeat behind every American show, without exception, is deference and obedience. If not to the state – and it's usually to the state – then to the family.

    Which character in, e.g., Battlestar Galactica is clearly always right and never abuses authority?


  121. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:26 am

    Ok thanks Phil. Myself I do not think at all that the UK is racially enlightened, I live in Scotland where race problems are often through the absence of a wider mix of race (yes I am white).

    I'll take it on the chin if I am blind because of privilege, but I just when I was watching I got a different hit from the scene as being about Danny's physical prowess. Now I won't defend myself as I am happy to be more than wrong in my responses.

    Love the episode by the way!


  122. BerserkRL
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:41 am

    Seriously?? I'm surprised that you're surprised — since after the "Deep Breath" scene I expected Courtney to be a recurring character, and indeed she has been. In "Into the Dalek" Courtney makes fun of the secretary for flirting with Danny. In "Listen" Clara complains about Courtney to Danny; and Courtney is the one responsible for the face-too-wide remark. Then of course she's back again in "The Caretaker."


  123. Iain Mew
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:42 am

    It's not a question of why the characters acted as they did within the story. It's a question of decisions to create those characters and put them in those situations, which exist in a wider context of the programme, UK TV (where ethnic minority characters are under-represented) and a society full of institutional racism. You can set up a situation which is perfectly justifiable in the story but still has the effect of reinforcing existing prejudices.

    Personally I took the police scene as a commentary on the well-known racial bias of the police and a good thing! (I didn't feel like I was meant to be on his side in that scene)

    I also thought that although Danny didn't mention race, his scene confronting the Doctor was affected by the strong likelihood that his officers would also have been white, as well as upper class. That was enough of an implied response against the Doctor's apparent prejudices to make the earlier scenes less uncomfortable in retrospect than if the Doctor had never been confronted. I can see why people would think differently there though.


  124. TheSmilingStallionInn
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:43 am

    Definitely something could be made out of the Skovotz Blitzer being a robot.


  125. BerserkRL
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:47 am

    That's a German U-Boat commander's deck coat — an officer's uniform.

    That's why the Dalek tells him "you would make a good Dalek." He was confused by his uniform.


  126. BerserkRL
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:49 am

    I wonder if Lauren Cooper is in this school somewhere.


  127. Monicker
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:55 am

    I don't think that frock coats, waistcoats and cravats were exclusively the dress of the aristocracy. In the nineteenth century, plenty of middle class men could have dressed like that, without coming across as unusual or remarkable.

    Hartnell especially… he wears a black jacket, checked trousers, a shirt, a waistcoat and a floppy tie… someone working in an office in the Victorian and Edwardian eras could have gone to work dressed like that and probably not looked particularly out of place.

    They were aspirational sort of clothes, I'll agree, hence the comment about middle classness earlier, I think that describing all the costumes as simply 'aristocratic' is narrowing the scope a little too much though.

    Pertwee and Colin Baker's have a Dandyish quality that recalls the likes of Brummell or Disraeli to some extent, yes… and perhaps also James Bond, Adam Adamant and Jason King in the case of the former too… so there are upper class roots, often of the pop-cultural kind.

    I think also there's the angle of non-conformist eccentricity, similar to someone like, say, Viv Stanshall. Applies quite strongly with Tom Baker's kind of costumes, which are more of a mix of college boy casualness and an artist favouring a loose and over the top flamboyance.


  128. Monicker
    September 28, 2014 @ 8:58 am

    I'd also say that Matt Smith's costume, at least with the tweed jacket, is a bit like that of a professor or lecturer of a certain era. It was a similar sort of image to Frank Muir.


  129. TheSmilingStallionInn
    September 28, 2014 @ 9:05 am

    Personal Favorite Rankings:

    Robot of Sherwood
    The Caretaker
    Deep Breath
    Into the Dalek
    Time Heist


  130. Daru
    September 28, 2014 @ 9:14 am

    Just for fun – ranked episodes so far:

    1. Listen
    2. The Caretaker
    3. Deep Breath
    4. Into the Dalek
    5. Robot of Sherwood
    6. Time Heist


  131. David Anderson
    September 28, 2014 @ 9:23 am

    Yes – Lance Parkin's generalisation, while it may work as a description of trends is clearly false when you add 'without exception' to it. I think he's right about The West Wing, which is utopian only if you strictly limit the range of what is thinkable. But there are quite enough counterexamples already on the thread (macgregor is right about Spooks on the UK side).

    Something like Dollhouse is interesting in that it plays with the protagonists are obviously working for the good guys in the first four episodes. Agents of SHIELD tries the same trick, although you might think it leaves it a little late to explain what it's really up to (it suffers in that it has to let Captain America have the big reveal).


  132. BerserkRL
    September 28, 2014 @ 9:29 am

    Yes, Tom Baker's costume and manner suggest "Bohemian" above all, Of course the Bohemian style began in largely upper and upper-middle class circles, but it spread across class lines somewhat over time.


  133. Ed Azad
    September 28, 2014 @ 9:34 am

    All of the Doctors qualify for what we'd call "limousine liberals". They like to keep up the pretense of being men of the people.

    Capaldi captures that, I think, rather well with his delivery of "certainly not". Rarely has the Doctor exhibited such pride in his breeding and background. We've seen him waxing nostalgic over Gallifrey, but only after he couldn't go back. This is a new side to him and one worth exploring.


  134. BerserkRL
    September 28, 2014 @ 10:07 am

    To me West Wing is a nightmarish dystopia; but then I'm an anarchist.


  135. Aylwin
    September 28, 2014 @ 10:12 am

    The UK racial culture described by some in this comment thread does sound remarkable, and quite likely out of reach for the US, at least for a very long time.

    I wouldn't worry too much about that – it's basically not true. In general, I think most people agree that the US is a lot better at accommodating immigration than Britain (or anywhere else in Europe, for that matter). And as Phil observes, in party-political terms the atmosphere is getting worse rather than better.

    In terms of television and film specifically, it's noticeable that most non-white British actors with enough profile to get work there spend an awful lot of their time working in the US these days…

    There are one or two grains of truth to the upbeat portrayal, though, and this story could be said to photograph the country on the better side of its face in that regard. British society probably is more relaxed than some about mixed-race relationships, at least where the white and African-Caribbean populations are concerned. While the latter is generally one of the least well-off groups economically and has particular social problems, the cultural barriers between them and the white population are low, social mingling is very extensive and there are extremely high levels of mixed partnership, such that those two groups can reasonably be expected to merge into one another in a matter of decades. The frequency of mixed relationships involving other non-white minority groups is very low, though the barriers there are as much religious as anything else.

    The story is also set in London, which has a phenomenally diverse population and which despite racial tensions (notably between young black men and the largely white police), can most days do a passable imitation of multicultural harmony, or at least amicable coexistence. Most other racially-mixed parts of the country tend rather to self-segregation and mutual resentment.


  136. Nyq Only
    September 28, 2014 @ 10:27 am

    The line "I thought you were from Blackpool!" made me laugh so hard my drink went up my nose.

    The Doctor being a bit of a git: I thought that was the point. The Doctor is shown to have prejudices (although not racial ones – well his anti-human prejudices are racial in a sense…) We aren't meant to approve of the Doctor's numerous anti-PE teacher put downs.

    Coal Hill: While it seemed a bit small to be a secondary school, overall it felt like an authentic portrayal of a school in the East End (within the bounds a silly story about cybernetic war machines)

    Courtney: A great extra character. Naughty enough for people to see how she might thoroughly exasperate her teachers but not obnoxious, stupid or thuggish.

    Samuel Anderson: gets to shine again.

    Pure entertainment – funnier than The Lodger.

    Nethersphere sequence: no idea what to make of that.

    Robots/cyborgs: every episode so far (although only a brief appearance in Listen)

    1. Listen/The Caretaker
    2. Deep Breath
    3. Time Heist
    4. Into the Dalek
    6. Robots of Sherwood – the only humdrum episode so far.


  137. Lance Parkin
    September 28, 2014 @ 11:53 am

    "I would take the various comments suggesting that the UK is an enlightened post-racial society where nobody "sees race""

    No one has said that.

    It's not a question of the UK being 'more evolved', or the US being 'more evolved'. They're different. The history, legal framework, economic circumstances and even the imperatives of network television drama are all different.

    Race relations, in both countries, are extremely nuanced. An American watching a British TV show is essentially translating it. Extreme nuance is the first thing to go in translation. This is, I think, an example of mistranslation. That's all.


  138. Lance Parkin
    September 28, 2014 @ 11:58 am

    "Which character in, e.g., Battlestar Galactica is clearly always right and never abuses authority?"

    I got two and a half episodes into the new Battlestar Galactica. I just thought it was a mess.


  139. Spacewarp
    September 28, 2014 @ 12:39 pm

    I feel a bit bad about causing this to kick off a bit. My comment was really aimed at Phil's noticing of what appeared to be the Doctor specifically noticing Danny's race. My feeling is that the UK has kind of moved on from a purely "black" issue, mainly because Black and Carribean members of UK society have been pretty much integrated over the last 20 years or so. This may well be my own perception of things as I've grown up with people of Carribean descent since my teens and I just see them as part of the British culture that I live in. There is terrible racism in the UK, but it seems to have progressed from "the blacks" towards "the muslims" via "the Irish". As a culture we seem to demonise certain races in each decade. In the 70s if someone spoke with an Irish accent you kind of assumed they were a terrorist. Now that mantle has been passed to anyone with an Asian (Indian) accent who has a beard and appears to be Islamic. I fully expect in 20 years or so that Islam will become a non-issue, but that we will move on to the next immigrant race that we love to hate. It seems to be just the way that human beings are, helpfully fuelled by whichever political party happens to be in power and how they can progress their own agenda by riding the latest wave of religious or racial disquiet. I try to do my own bit by pointing out cases where I don't think racism exists, and I apologise to any US commentators if I've made comments about your country where I've got it wrong. Racism and xenophobia seems to be hard-wired into the human psyche, and I think the best we can do is recognise it in ourselves and our culture and do our best to sit back and think twice about how it has affected us all personally. Growing up through the 70s and 80s I'm not perfect, but I try each day to rise above my inherent prejudices, and at the end of the day it's the best we can all do.


  140. Spacewarp
    September 28, 2014 @ 12:42 pm

    I'll be honest, I've let my Whovian side slip a bit, and I haven't re-watched at lot of this series. Moffat's obviously got plans for Courtney and a good thing too because she's a watchable actor.


  141. jauntyalan
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:02 pm

    I don't think in the first instance Phil was saying the doctor does notice it. (he later confirms this in a comment "For my part, I didn't notice it at all until the second watching")

    You were reacting to ""I’m not quite sure about the white Doctor assuming the black man can only be a P.E. teacher, though. I know it’s written and played as being entirely about how Danny is a soldier…"

    And that 2nd half of the sentence is pretty clear that the character 'The Doctor" and indeed anyone engaged with the story and his character will also not notice it (as did you, me, Phil and doubtless the majority of viewers.)

    The cognitive dissonance the Dr is experiencing it is made abundantly clear is "soldier!=maths teacher". BUT, for the here-and-now viewer it's relevant to comment that the situation presented is in some sense playful – EVEN IF the dialog was never rewritten post casting. (It is not about, perish the thought, intention – just the selfish viewer – but admit it, it would be interesting to know if the writing had been done over to overload our responses so well to guide us past all this.)

    That the scene is about two characters with different prejudices – neither racial in tone – only adds to the relevance/playfullness/comment-worthiness of the scene.


  142. jauntyalan
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:06 pm

    (signing in and editing comments here isn't great is it?)

    I failed to correct that to "It looks like you were reacting to the 1st sentence" and "But the 2nd sentence following". Otherwise I look too rude and presumptuous (of what happened!) and mistaken that there were 2 sentences at all πŸ™


  143. Alex
    September 28, 2014 @ 1:35 pm

    It's worth noting that, costume-wise, Capaldi's look is very much a working class look, especially that done-up top button with no tie – I saw a few young lads sporting that look at the social club I used to work at a couple of years back.


  144. macrogers
    September 28, 2014 @ 2:27 pm

    I just want to come back to this thread, long after everyone's moved on, because that seems like a great use of time. I watched "Caretaker" again, and Phil's totally right that the big headline should be the interesting stuff the show's doing (and may yet do) with Danny and Courtney more than the bullet points I and others have mentioned – though those points were still worth mentioning. So much of the American headspace/bandwidth (and by extension my headspace/bandwidth) right now is so packed with Ferguson and its echoes across the US that this stuff tends to jump to the fore. And likely none of it was on Moffat's, Roberts', or the casting department's minds when putting "The Caretaker" together. Part of me regrets bringing up those points without writing more general thoughts on the episode first, which despite what it looks like on this thread, I 97% loved. I think when I visit this blog, a lot of times I'm in the TARDIS Eruditorum mentality, where I'm thinking more about Doctor Who as a cultural force bouncing off different contexts in different ways rather than as a weekly show where I'm giving thumbs up or down. My OP comment here was intended as one element of the story's cultural context I thought worth discussing on by far the safest Doctor Who discussion site of which I'm aware, not as my verdict on its quality. But as far as the latter goes, watching it a second time confirms how fantastic it is on nearly every level. When I think of episodes 2, 4, and 6 as one developing inter-personal and celestial epic, I get very excited for the possibilities.


  145. unnoun
    September 28, 2014 @ 2:40 pm

    @Spacewarp: "I try to do my own bit by pointing out cases where I don't think racism exists"

    You. Do not. Have. That Right.


  146. Matthew Blanchette
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:09 pm

    "Have I that right?"


  147. unnoun
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:10 pm

    No. You do not.


  148. unnoun
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:20 pm

    I don't think anyone's mentioned the bit at the end where it zooms in on the "officers and cars respond to all calls" bit on the Police Box sign. I liked that bit. It was a nice bit.


  149. Nicholas
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:29 pm

    "And I do suspect this is mostly Roberts – I think Moffat was probably mostly just nipping and tucking at the character bits for Danny."

    I'm surprised you said this, this is the first episode of Doctor Who that I thought really evoked Chalk.


  150. BerserkRL
    September 28, 2014 @ 3:34 pm

    I got two and a half episodes into the new Battlestar Galactica. I just thought it was a mess.

    Well, a show where everyone abuses authority and no one is clearly always right is going to seem a bit of a mess. That's why BSG was the best new sf show in many many years.


  151. Lance Parkin
    September 28, 2014 @ 4:41 pm

    "Well, a show where everyone abuses authority and no one is clearly always right is going to seem a bit of a mess."

    I thought it was a bit of an lukewarm mash up of various neocon power and persecution fantasies. It retained the original's Mormon DNA and contempt for peacemakers, glorification of men in uniform over silly civilians and their ludicrous demands to have a say in things, and added layers of Cheney playbook nonsense about 'tough decisions', ie: let's torture all our enemies and send all our friends on suicide missions. And, oh good god, the pompous religious nonsense.

    Not to my taste. If it's to yours, that's good. You gained pleasure from something I couldn't, and that means you're up on the deal.


  152. storiteller
    September 28, 2014 @ 5:03 pm

    I think the "you must be a PE teacher" joke works, though I understand why people would be thrown by it as well. (For my part, I didn't notice it at all until the second watching. I guess I just didn't see Danny as a black man at first glance. Or something.)

    I'm American and I didn't notice it at all while watching, but I think it's because my conception of "PE teacher stereotype" is incredibly white. I imagine the stereotypical white Southern meathead jock football coach when I think male PE teacher. Perhaps that's because I grew up in a very suburban school with no black teachers that I can remember, but that's a different perspective from America.

    The "shoplifting" comment was weird, especially because the way he said it was dismissive and as if that was a bad thing. The "disruptive influence" conversation was marvelous though.

    As for the policeman harassing the black kids, I literally said with a level of glee after he started walking in the building, "Oooh, the racist cop is going to get it!" In the wake of the over-militerized, trigger-happy racist police in the news, having a racist cop zapped by a trigger-happy, militarized robot felt a little more just desserts than if it was some totally random person.


  153. brownstudy
    September 28, 2014 @ 6:39 pm

    Speaking of bureaucratic afterlives – do check out a 1998 Japanese movie "After Life," all about what happens to the souls before they go to their final destinations. It sets up a set of rules — you can take only one memory from earth with you to the afterlife, which you can see recreated for you on a movie screen — and then rings changes on those premises. So much there about narrative, film-making, and, of course, what single memory would you take with you to the afterlife. Great, great movie.


  154. Alan
    September 28, 2014 @ 10:43 pm

    It's odd, perhaps, but the thing that sticks out most to me from this (very good, IMO) episode was Danny's Olympic quality somersault over the robot at the end. It looked so bizarrely out of place and improbable that (given the themes of the season) I wouldn't be surprised that there's some twist coming that Danny's a robot or cyborg or some damned thing and doesn't know it.


  155. Spacewarp
    September 28, 2014 @ 11:33 pm

    @unnoun. You. Do not. Have. That Right

    I beg your pardon? Are you telling me I don't have the right to say something in conversation, on the Comments section of a blog? Providing I keep within the accepted rules of decency and are not abusive towards other posters, surely I am allowed a modicum of free speech?

    Do you accept that in some quarters telling another poster what they can and cannot do (while inserting periods between each word a la "Comic Book Guy") could be considered abusive, unless you are the blog owner or a moderator appointed by such?


  156. jonathan inge
    September 28, 2014 @ 11:42 pm

    This comment has been removed by the author.


  157. unnoun
    September 28, 2014 @ 11:52 pm

    You do not have the right to whitesplain. When it comes to issues of racism you have the right to shut up and listen. I'm the mixed race kid of mixed race parents and I grew up in the UK and lived there for twenty years of my life and you cannot tell me that people in the UK don't see or notice whether or not somebody is black.


  158. Spacewarp
    September 29, 2014 @ 12:25 am

    OK I'm off of here. I don't come on blogs like this to be told to shut up. Enjoy your life.


  159. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 29, 2014 @ 1:34 am

    If you were expecting that I, as the blog owner and sole moderator, were going to in any way support the use of the term "abusive" to describe unnoun's emphatic but polite observation that it is probably not your place as a white dude to discourse at length on what your culture does and does not "see" in race is, you are sorely mistaken.

    Your comments indeed have not crossed over the limits to the freedom of speech I allow people in this comments section. I do not think, however, that this was the specific right unnoun was disputing. I think the right was more a moral right than one based in the technicalities of comments policy. And I'm certainly not going to object to commenters politely telling other commenters that their comments were offensive, ill-advised, and ethically troubled.

    And to be honest, I rather think unnoun has the right of this one.

    As it were.


  160. brownstudy
    September 29, 2014 @ 2:43 am

    The AVClub reviewer liked the episode a lot ( and spent a good bit of time dealing with the Problem of Clara, namely the question Danny asked her: why does she do it? She's rather like Martha in that, unlike Rose, Donna, and Amy, she had no vacuum in her life that required the Doctor to fill it.

    And she does run around like a MPDG in the first 20 minutes and lies to Danny constantly — what is going on with her? The thought that occurred to me is that she resembles the Clara of "Snowmen," leading (and enjoying) a double life because…why? Shades of "Importance of Being Earnest" and Bunburying.


  161. Whittso
    September 29, 2014 @ 3:24 am

    This is rather trivial in contrast to the above conversation, but I just wanted to pick up on Carey's point about the 'teenage' doctor… I see what you mean. It's sort of underlined by his goth-style jumper as well.


  162. Whittso
    September 29, 2014 @ 3:38 am

    re: Colin Baker's costume it makes me think of the Marquis of Bath. That kind of loud you get away with if you're seriously posh.

    I think the central point – the Doctor's clothes move between upper-middle to out-and-out posh – is right. As Alex notes Capaldi's is one of the least upper class we've seen.


  163. Whittso
    September 29, 2014 @ 3:51 am

    The Police scene is interesting. It would be not unreasonable in real life, or in the scene for their to be a racist motive, but equally as lasthussar said the mind set could just be 'anti-kid'. That said, I think the idea that automatically school children out of school are 'up to something' or that is justified to assume more than 2 school children together are a problem is a worrying one that I don't think should go without challenge. Of course some kids shoplift and some skive, some bully and some are a nuisance – I don't think we make anything any easier by tarring all children with the same brush.

    Also, if that scene was intended as a commentary on racism it was very muted. Which is fine, I guess, not everything has to be rammed down your throat…


  164. Whittso
    September 29, 2014 @ 3:53 am

    @nyq only +1 on your listing which I think is the same as mine.


  165. Scurra
    September 29, 2014 @ 3:58 am

    Phil, I'm not disputing anything you say here but, as usual, pretty much every argument on the internet turns out to be a definitional argument.
    Unless we can all start from the same agreed understanding of what each of us precisely means when we use a certain term (which is, itself hedged around with personal experience that is impossible to encapsulate often even to ourselves), then our misunderstandings are going to massively outweigh our positive conversations. Especially when our own individual "red lines" are not only unique, but often vary from day to day.

    However, in this instance, I can't see how unnoun can be seen as making anything other than a statement of personal superiority and seemingly denying another person the right to make any comments about a specific moral issue. To me that seems qualitatively different to politely telling someone that they are ill-informed or whatever. (Especially when couched in apparently sweeping terms by omitting qualifies such as "some" or "most".)

    Please don't get me wrong here – I am not suggesting that unnoun's personal experience doesn't give them a unique insight. It's just that it seems moderately clear to me that Spacewarp has a unique insight as well.


  166. IG
    September 29, 2014 @ 4:42 am

    Of course there's racism in the UK. I live in a very ethnically-mixed part of London and most of the time people manage to rub along fine, but it would be silly to suggest ethnic tensions don't flare up sometimes, and not always in a straightforward 'white/Other' way. For example, between black and (south) Asian people, or between Muslims and Everyone Else.

    Anyway, my girlfriend is mixed-race, and she scorned the idea that there was anything racist in The Caretaker when I put the idea to her. (She enjoyed the episode.) Of course this is one person's view and purely anecdotal evidence, but when it comes to this sort of thing I generally put more weight on the opinion of someone who's actually experienced anti-black racism, than on the opinion of a well-meaning white person who's taking imagined offence on behalf of another group (which I suspect applies to an awful lot of the online complainers).


  167. Alex
    September 29, 2014 @ 5:42 am

    I'm a mixed-race Londoner and, on first viewing, didn't see any racism (apart from the bit with the copper hassling the kids, where we're obviously not to meant to sympathise with him).

    On second viewing the bit where the Doctor flatly refuses to believe that Danny is a maths teacher did seem a bit more uncomfortable – perhaps because it reminded me of a 'funny' story told to me by some Polish friends where they encountered a black Pole in a bar and found themselves unable to speak Polish to him, because the very idea of a black Pole was so anathema to them. It also reminded me of the small minority of people who refused to accept that I'm English, on account of also being brown.

    However, any discomfort from those scenes is washed away by the brilliant way that Danny gets the measure of the Doctor and takes him down a peg or two.

    There's plenty of racism about in Britain today. even if a lot of it is more subtle (and often class-based as well) or focused on groups that no one likes such as travellers or Roma peoples, and plenty of problems when it comes to racial representation on British telly, but on the whole Doctor Who (since 2005) has done pretty damn well.


  168. Alan
    September 29, 2014 @ 7:35 am

    One possibility (and I haven't decided if it's troubling or not) is that Clara doesn't want Danny to know about the Doctor because she's afraid he'd get jealous, even though she's not attracted to the Doctor in the same way she is to Danny. I have a sense that Danny, like Rory, would disapprove of the girl he loves recklessly endangering her life by continued association with the Doctor and his lifestyle. (Assuming, that is, that Danny does actually love Clara. She said the L-word, while AFAIK, he did not.)


  169. Alan
    September 29, 2014 @ 7:58 am

    It is striking to me that since the new show started, the overwhelming majority of companions have had long term interracial romances. Rose and Mickey. Martha and Dr. Whatisname (before she inexplicably ended up with Mickey). For that matter, Martha and her flirtation with Shakespeare and her unrequited love for the Doctor. Donna and BOTH of her fiances. And now Clara and Danny. Also, arguably, the Doctor and River, who was black before regenerating into Alex Kingston.

    The UK racial culture described by some in this comment thread does sound remarkable, and quite likely out of reach for the US, at least for a very long time.

    Indeed. As I write these words from Oxford, Mississippi, the local story of the day is about the Sons of the Confederacy suing the University of Mississippi to enjoin it from renaming Confederate Drive into something less … Confederate. A plurality of the state in which I live cheerfully tells telephone pollsters that they would support anti-miscegenation laws. And last spring, two students were expelled for hanging a noose around the statue of James Meredith (the first black student admitted to Ole Miss). I can understand why someone with a particular background and set of personal experiences might find elements of The Caretaker to be racist. It's just that I can't help finding such interpretations to be bizarre against the backdrop of my own life experiences, which includes exhibitions of racism so outrageous that most people here would consider them unrealistic and two-dimensional if they occurred as plot elements on Doctor Who.


  170. Spacewarp
    September 29, 2014 @ 8:41 am

    "I really shouldn't need to say this, but telling other posters to sod off is kind of the exclusive privilege of the guy who owns the blog. Everyone else gets to express their disagreement in more polite ways."

    But another commentator telling me to shut up and listen is OK I guess. And no Phil I didn't expect you to support my use of the word abusive. But I also didn't expect you to exhibit the double standards you have here. Yeah yeah I know I said I was off, and I am, which is a shame because I do enjoy your blog. I just don't want to get embroiled in any more discussions where my favourite programme is found wanting in terms of sexism and racism. On the one hand Doctor Who is praised for having multi-racial casting, on the other it is castigated when one of those cast members says something to another that is construed as suspect. Sometimes a line of dialog between two people of different genders and races is just that, a line of dialog.


  171. unnoun
    September 29, 2014 @ 9:54 am

    For the record, no, as someone that has been on the receiving end of discrimination against dark-skinned people of African descent in the UK, I don't have a problem about The Caretaker's depiction of race. It mostly presents racial bias as subtext, and is critical of it.

    But that wasn't exactly the point I was making to begin with. My point was that, first, the UK is definitely not a place where television viewers don't see race, and the idea that criticism of race in British television is just American viewers projecting is awful. And it's also not something white British people really have any business talking about.

    [italics]"I just don't want to get embroiled in any more discussions where my favourite programme is found wanting in terms of sexism and racism."[/italics]

    I mean, the fact of the matter is that everything can be found wanting in terms of sexism and racism. It's kind of a reality of the world we live in. And, yes, that includes Doctor Who. And I don't think pretending that isn't the case is very productive.

    And I think espousing cultural relativist tripe about how it isn't a problem in the UK is something that is incredibly myopic at best.


  172. encyclops
    September 29, 2014 @ 10:15 am

    I'd be over the moon if Gareth Roberts took over. Apart from "The Shakespeare Code" (which still was far from awful) I've really enjoyed everything he's done on the programme.

    As for the robots, I thought that was interesting as well. You could even make the case for the Dalek as a cyborg (rather than just a blob in a tank); they've been treated as robots often enough. It could be just Phantom Menacing — it's okay to kill them, they're just machines — but I'm sure you're right that there's more to it.


  173. elvwood
    September 29, 2014 @ 10:36 am

    Late to the party – I only got to see it today, having been away attending a writers' workshop (at Pan Macmillan – it was a prize for the winners of a short story competition) – but I just wanted to say that this was the first story of the season that my wife and I enjoyed significantly more than the children. They both adored Time Heist (and actually I appreciated it more on second viewing because of their enthusiastic presence), but found this to be one of the weaker stories in a strong run.

    Everything else I would have said has already been mentioned by other people.

    Rankings as of today:

    1. Listen
    2. Robot of Sherwood
    3. The Caretaker
    4. Deep Breath
    5. Time Heist
    6. Into the Dalek

    It's a sign of quite how much I'm enjoying this run that the lowest-rated so far is still only a little below my halfway mark for DW TV stories. Early series 5 did almost as well (with, again, the Dalek story trailing, and that one would have been lower still if I hadn't enjoyed the Power pastiche at the start so much), but none of the other series since the revival have come close. Fingers crossed the run continues!


  174. encyclops
    September 29, 2014 @ 10:42 am

    Are we thinking Clara = Barbara, Danny = Ian, and Courtney = Susan? I can't see them running with four people in the TARDIS alongside the Twelfth Doctor's gigantic ego for very long, but the idea's fun.

    I'm gonna go:

    1. The Caretaker
    2. Listen
    3. Deep Breath
    4. Into the Dalek
    5. Time Heist
    6. Robot of Sherwood

    "Listen" is really excellent, but the pure enjoyment factor of a Gareth Roberts script just puts it over the top for me, and I would say it gets in quite as much character development with less glibness. They're very very close, though, and I might change my mind by the end of the season when I see the threads play out.

    I still think the soldier thing is very heavy-handed. It's as if, freed from some of the guilt of having been a warrior himself, he's free to direct his self-loathing outward at the real soldiers again, but even that doesn't quite gel for me. I guess we'll see where things end up.

    I no longer think Missy is the Master. Which means she'll probably turn out to be.


  175. Alan
    September 29, 2014 @ 11:02 am

    I could see a very athletic ex-soldier dodging ray blasts and leaping over the robot. It's a little different to see a character — who at no point has been flagged as having a background in gymnastics — execute a near perfect somersault in a way that I'm pretty sure real-life gymnasts couldn't have done without the aid of a trampoline.


  176. elvwood
    September 29, 2014 @ 11:43 am

    As someone who is in a position of privilege in most of these cases (white, male, cis, gentile, etc) my goal is to speak up, but with the proviso that

    (a) I am prepared to be told I've screwed up, probably quite often, by people who don't share my privilege;
    (b) I need to assume they are right when they do so; and
    (c) I need to accept that they may well be angry at me for the screw-up.

    Oh, and if I don't understand what I've done wrong and ask for clarification, I also need to accept that they may not feel up to giving it – particularly if what I've said or done has been painful. At that point it's best to simply apologise, shut up and try another tack another time. (It's also the case that I might not be able to take in what I've done wrong at the time, being too shook up at having Got It Wrong.)

    I kind of feel without doing that, I can't become a better ally. I often don't manage it, frequently resort to silence instead of speaking out. Short-term that's better than spouting something crap, but doesn't really progress anything.

    It's an evolving position – I only figured out some of it after getting shook up and defensive after friends got angry with me when I was only trying to help them, goddammit!, and no doubt it will change again – but I hope it's not heading in completely the wrong direction.


  177. tom jones
    September 29, 2014 @ 12:56 pm

    Writing as someone who's white and middle class, and works in Shoreditch, I've got to agree with unnoun; a couple of the comments from other British posters have been bizarre, frankly.

    But ironically, the problem isn't race, it's humour. Apart from the Clara/Danny stuff, just about all the scenes between white and black characters are at least partly played for laughs. And that's not going to change any time soon.

    One of the things I've noticed in Phil's blog is that he, and a lot of the non-UK commenters, really don't get how important comedy is in British culture at the moment. And I mean absolutely, all-conquering, vitally important. There often seems to be a real fear of being seen to be too serious in primetime TV. They'll do serious stuff, very serious stuff, but they'll often try to lighten it up; everything has to have the sting taken out. Other countries do this, sure, but not to the extent the UK does.

    That scene with the cop is so generically Insert-Your-Cliche-Here – you could watch it with headphones and a blindfold and still recite the dialogue – that I genuinely can't tell if it's meant to show a racist cop or if they wanted to do a fluffy, throwaway little the-jobsworth-gets-what-he-deserves scene and just ended up with both kids being black. I'm guessing the latter.

    On the other hand, those two kids should have been in school; they're not going to become English grads by bunking off.


  178. Lance Parkin
    September 29, 2014 @ 5:09 pm

    "That scene with the cop"

    OK … another thing that's clearly been lost in translation. He's not 'a cop'. He's very clearly, as clearly as can possibly be, as he's fluorescent yellow and wears a label saying it a Community Support Officer. This is not some armed, Judge Dredd type, he's basically, in American terms, one down from a mall cop. He wouldn't have a baton, or handcuffs. He probably walked or cycled to his beat. He's not picking on kids as some abuse of power, he's doing exactly what he's meant to be doing, which is basically a truancy patrol and making sure no one's breaking into abandoned buildings. I don't think there is a US equivalent that's quite as … well, crap. They get guys like that to do truancy patrols precisely because no kid could possibly feel threatened by him.

    As for an abuse of power, PCSOs don't even have the power to arrest someone as a policeman. If they arrest someone, it's a citizen's arrest.

    Not one person here is saying that Britain has gone beyond racism. But attitudes to race are different. And no one is saying that the police in Britain can't be racist or they've never picked on a black kid, or that the police haven't provoked riots with rough handling of minorities … but policing is different in the UK.

    If you equate that scene with Ferguson then you're getting your sums wrong, it's as simple as that. I understand why it would have that resonance to an American viewer, but that's precisely my point – it's a mistranslation. If you want a US equivalent, then riddle me this: which cop in the US would go to prison for ten years for possessing pepper spray? Not using it – having it. Not having it on him, having it at home. OK. That's how dangerous this cop is. He's not a faceless stormtrooper, the nearest US equivalent is probably 'hall monitor'.


  179. Daru
    September 29, 2014 @ 9:50 pm

    Yeah Pen Name Pending – think certainly there's a likelihood of this being foreshadowing.


  180. Daru
    September 29, 2014 @ 10:05 pm

    Yeah! Loved seeing Courtney again, brilliant character.


  181. Daru
    September 29, 2014 @ 10:09 pm

    Mm yes "Clara = Barbara, Danny = Ian, and Courtney = Susan" looks really possible. Had already felt the Barbara and Ian vibe going on but had missed Susan in Courtney, so well spotted.


  182. unnoun
    September 30, 2014 @ 1:10 am

    …In fairness, looking at the scenes from the episode the character didn't seem to have the "community support officer" label anywhere on his vest. Just the word "police" a few times. One on the front and one on the back.

    And I could have sworn that, in some of the (relatively) recent stuff with the riots, I saw police officers wearing fluorescent yellow uniforms and also wielding batons.

    …I also remember a thing about a Community Support Officer using his job as a means to target women in order to commit sex offenses. So. I mean, power is power. Abuse is abuse.


  183. unnoun
    September 30, 2014 @ 1:20 am

    I mean, fair point otherwise.


  184. Lance Parkin
    September 30, 2014 @ 1:53 am

    "…In fairness, looking at the scenes from the episode the character didn't seem to have the "community support officer" label anywhere on his vest."

    It says it on his epaulettes:

    It says it on his hat:

    There is no reason for anyone in the US to know what a PCSO is. But that doesn't take away from the fact that if you think that's anything like an American 'cop' (or much like a British one for that matter) it's a serious misinterpretation of what you're looking at.


  185. unnoun
    September 30, 2014 @ 2:10 am

    Huh. Okay, I didn't see that, I guess.

    I mean, I'm pretty sure the PCSOs aren't the only ones that wear that shade of yellow.


  186. Elizabeth Sandifer
    September 30, 2014 @ 2:16 am

    While I agree that comparisons to Ferguson are probably slightly overblown, nothing here is suggesting to me that comparisons to, say, New York City's stop and frisk policy aren't in order. Which is to say, sure, he's not a threat… but the resigned yet defiant "we're on a free period" speaks volumes about the degree to which one suspects the kids he talks to are rarely white.


  187. Richard Pugree
    September 30, 2014 @ 6:18 am

    Without wanting to get involved in the above too much (and having only seen the episode once on transmission) just on your last point Phil: speaking as a UK viewer I read the 'free period' line as a cheeky attempt at a lie to get away with bunking off. Kids that age don't generally get free periods – but it's definitely the kind of thing they might try to pull. What you read as 'resigned yet defiant', I interpreted as 'they know they're probably not going to get away with it, but it's worth a try anyway'.


  188. Alex
    September 30, 2014 @ 6:27 am

    To be fair, 'stop-and-search' is still a big problem in London, with ethnic minorities overwhelmingly targeted. Under a 'Section 60' search, which is only meant to be used to combat terrorism, the police don't even have to provide 'reasonable grounds'.


  189. storiteller
    September 30, 2014 @ 7:05 am

    I don't think it's a direct comparison to Ferguson, so much as something that (perhaps unintentionally) evoked the general issue of the toxic mix of racism, police-like authority figures, and being militarized / trigger-happy.

    But no, we don't have anything like that role in the U.S. Even Community Watch folks can carry guns and can even shoot if they can claim it's "self defense" (aka George Zimmerman).

    Also, to me, the issue if the kids were really lying or not is irrelevant. The question is if white kids in the same position would be yelled at by the officer or not. Now, it being a fictional universe, there's no way to say. We'd like to think that racism is not an issue in the Doctor Whoinverse. But in the real world, it is far less likely that white kids would have gotten the same treatment.


  190. Daru
    September 30, 2014 @ 7:12 am

    Hey storiteller, I can't comment on the US of course, but I think in the UK it is possible for white kids to get the same treatment, especially if a particular school has a 'reputation' for kids regularly bunking off.


  191. Anton B
    September 30, 2014 @ 7:42 am

    The kids are in school uniform but are not not in school on a school day. The PCSO is not doing anything like 'stop and search' he's telling a couple of truant kids to get to school. To read this as a 'racist cop hassling two black dudes in the street' is simply to culturally misread the signs.
    That this and the Doctor's, exaggerated for comic effect, anti PE teacher attitude has been been the subject of such strongly felt emotional debate here certainly teaches us something about the ways in which dramatic cues can be interpreted through different cultural lenses and in that respect has been worthwhile. I find it sad though that a regular commenter has decided to leave this blog because of the way he was (rightly in my opinion, for what it's worth, but perhaps in the heat of the debate rather impolitely) asked to check his privilege.

    I agree that 'whitesplaining' is wrong even when it is motivated by the best of intentions and perhaps some commenters here have veered into that territory. It would be useful to hear from more people of colour in the UK and US as to their reaction to these scenes and whether they found them racist or abusive. I would suggest everyone else keeps their opinions to themselves.

    Declaration of interest. I am white cis gendered of Jewish descent whose grandparents were born and brought up in east London near the area where the fictional Coal Hill school is located. I have personally experienced anti semitic, and racist abuse and fought fascism and racism all my life. I have also taught in Secondary schools like 'Coal Hill' and can affirm that the kind of racism claimed to be portrayed here would not be tolerated for a second ether from a caretaker or a PCSO.

    I do hope however that Spacewarp will reconsider his decision and return to these boards. I for one will miss his contributions.


  192. Prandeamus
    September 30, 2014 @ 9:12 am

    Lauren Cooper? I ain't bovverred tho, is it?


  193. UrsulaL
    September 30, 2014 @ 3:28 pm

    Why keep her double life secret?

    As Victorian Clara said, "you'd never believe me if I told you."

    The child Amy bit four psychiatrists, because she insisted that her real experience were real, and no one believed her.

    Unless the Doctor was willing to show up and prove she's telling the truth, actually telling the truth will only lead to her being thought delusional.

    And Clara has, from the beginning, been someone who likes things orderly, and who kept her chaotic travels with the Doctor strictly separate from her daily life and responsiblities.

    And after a while, the double life becomes habit, the need to lie becomes automatic. Which I think is why Danny had such a problem with it – even if he understands that she felt she had to keep her travels secret, lest she be thought insane, constant lies are a really bad way to start a relationship, and this is a problem that needs to be talked through and fixed, if things will ever work out.


  194. brownstudy
    September 30, 2014 @ 6:54 pm

    Thank you, UrsulaL. That was a wonderful reply. Clara has sort of slipped into this double life and seems to enjoy the frisson of being able to leave whichever one she chooses when she wants/needs to.

    I find it interesting that a Caretaker role is assumed by Clara for the Doctor rather joyfully, by the Doctor for Clara (in limited circumstances), and by Danny for Clara (in other circumstances). The Doctor takes care of the Earth as sort of his weary duty, he doesn't really enjoy it. Clara seems to want someone to take care of her in ways the Doctor can't or doesn't, and wants to care for someone in a way that can be reciprocated, but isn't sure how to move forward with that.

    Neat episode.


  195. 5tephe
    October 1, 2014 @ 2:37 am

    An unusual one for me, being a Gareth Roberts script I actually really enjoyed. LOVE the Doctor is an officer bit – nice pick up by Moffat, being an aspect of the character that is obvious and rings true once pointed out, but doesn't feel like it has been brought up before.


  196. ferret
    October 1, 2014 @ 3:17 am

    This "officer" business for me points more and more to the possibility that Moffat is going to explore the Doctor's early years and reasons for leaving Gallifrey – because he certainly wasn't an officer in the Time War.


  197. dr.jimmy72296
    October 1, 2014 @ 1:00 pm

    Have to admit to feeling left out as I seem to be the only one NOT enjoying Series 8.

    Seems like every episode either requires you to forget a well established character trait in order to make the slightest bit of sense (Deep Breath, Listen, The Caretaker), or it’s dumb and dull (Into the Dalek, Time Heist) or a completely irredeemable train wreck (Robot of Sherwood).

    Moffat’s always been more of a magician than writer as far as I’m concerned. At least on Doctor Who he employs sleight of hand where the dialogue is so snappy that it carries you along and keeps you from realizing that 90 percent of his scripts make absolutely no sense if you stop to think about them for 30 seconds.

    Clara’s known every one of the Doctor’s incarnations but in Deep Breath she’s horrified that he’s old and cranky?

    The Doctor, who counted the Brigadier among his closest friends, hates soldiers?

    The Doctor has spent roughly 2000 years in the company of human women, married two (River, Elizabeth), and wanted to marry at least one other (Rose), maybe two (Reinette) suddenly has no idea what high heels and makeup are, and thinks Clara looks as old as he does?

    Everyone here is arguing over whether the Doctor thinking Danny is a PE teacher is racist because Danny is black, even though that obviously wasn’t the intent. But the actual intent is just as ugly. Prejudice is prejudice. Danny’s not even a soldier anymore. There are undoubtedly people watching the show though who have parents, siblings, or friends in Afghanistan or Iraq and are probably hoping Doctor Who will give them 40 or so minutes a week where they don’t have to think about whether they’ll ever see those people again. Instead they get to hear how bad those people are.

    And what happened to the sand piranhas? Since they’re on the moon next week I’m guessing how they got out of those chains will be left to the imagination just like how they escaped the Doctor’s time stream on Trenzalore at the the end of Name of the Doctor.


  198. Katherine Sas
    December 22, 2014 @ 4:50 am

    "The thought that occurred to me is that she resembles the Clara of "Snowmen," leading (and enjoying) a double life because…why? Shades of "Importance of Being Earnest" and Bunburying."

    YES. That is a gorgeous comparison, and you're right that she's back to her roots as Victorian governess Clara (which was Moffat's original concept for the character, so it makes sense that he's steered her back there.)


  199. theHamstertronic
    September 9, 2015 @ 6:23 pm

    Only watched this episode 11 months later, but thanks, Dr. Jimmy. I was amazed no one was noticing these things.

    I'd like to add one: perhaps the most defining trait of the Doctor, through every incarnation, is his endless welcoming curiosity. He seeks to learn about everybody and persuade every enemy; he's even kind to monsters, given any kind of chance ("Curse of Peladon", "the Creature in the Pit", "Frontios", even as recently as the dinosaur in "Deep Breath" when he was still unstable). He spends half his life trying to charm the people busy jailing him. Suddenly, Capaldi is playing a nasty, abrasive, dismissive bigot.

    Capaldi is doing a wonderful acting job, but his character is not the Doctor. "The Lodger" starred Matt Smith playing the Doctorest Doctor ever. "The Caretaker", by the same writer, is every bit as tight and well-written a script, but its central character is so close to opposite that I'm trying to figure out whether I actively hate it.


  200. theHamstertronic
    September 9, 2015 @ 6:26 pm

    (And no, I didn't mean "bigot" racially. He was just as instantly, nastily intolerant to Robin Hood, say. Amusing-ish. But nothing like the Doctor as I know him.)


  201. hari
    September 19, 2016 @ 4:50 am

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  202. TommyR01D
    September 25, 2016 @ 11:41 pm

    I’m going to throw my support behind dr.jimmy72296 and say that Series 8 was mediocre bordering on poor overall. In particular I found that Listen was extremely pretentious with an ill-considered ending. The romance of Clara and Danny did not enthuse me at all as I found both of their characters to be very badly written and just generally uninteresting.

    I also found the arc about the Doctor hating soldiers to be just as pointless and stupid as the Ponds’ divorce sub-plot in Asylum of the Daleks, except that it didn’t even have the decency to die a quick death.

    As for the supposed racism – I barely even remember the police scene. Posters here are making far too much out of it.


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